Date: June 18, 2021
Interviewee: Roy Riller and Arden Thorne
Interviewer: Gillian Demetriou
Transcriber: Rev.com
Editor: Melissa Ziobro/Kay Harris
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
[recording opens with chatter]
Roy Riller:
Yes, because I knew it when it was Monmouth College and ….. they really expanded a lot over the years, they became university status. It’s been a long time.
Gillian Demetriou:
So Mr. Riller, before I start asking you questions about you and your life I just have to read a little intro. I do it for everybody, just introducing you, and introducing the project. Is that okay?
Roy Riller:
Okay with me.
Gillian Demetriou:
Cool. My name is Gillian Demetriou and I’m a [student] researcher with the Paradoxical Paradise African-American Oral History and Mapping Project of Asbury Park. Today is Friday, June 18th, 2021. I’m here with Mr. Roy Riller and he has agreed to be interviewed for the oral history portion of this project. This interview is being recorded with the permission of both parties. Thank you very much for joining me today, Mr. Riller. [Editor’s note: Gillian and Roy are joined by Kay Harris, President of the Asbury Park Museum, and Arden Thorne.]
Roy Riller:
You’re welcome.
Gillian Demetriou:
So just- when and where were you born?
Roy Riller:
I was born in Morehouse Parish, in Louisiana.
Gillian Demetriou:
Who else was in your family? Mom, dad, brothers, sisters?
Roy Riller:
Well, I still have two sisters and I still have two brothers.
Gillian Demetriou:
What year were you born in, sir?
Roy Riller:
October 30th, 1932.
Gillian Demetriou:
Wow. You’re a couple of weeks after me.
Roy Riller:
[Laughter] Well, all right!
Gillian Demetriou:
Could you describe your childhood a little bit? What was it like growing up?
Roy Riller:
Oh my childhood, I spent probably 10 of those years in Louisiana. I went to … Well, I went to kindergarten and – I was in Arkansas because my dad was born and raised in Hot Springs National Park, Arkansas. So in those first years, up to five years old, I was in Arkansas because that’s where my mom and my dad was residing at the time. I went to kindergarten in Arkansas. After that, I think around the fifth grade, I went back to Louisiana and I was there until probably it was seventh grade and we came to New Jersey.
When I came to New Jersey I lived in Neptune, New Jersey. I went to Ridge Avenue Grammar School. And I graduated from Ridge Avenue in 1946. From there I went to Neptune High School, I graduated from Neptune High School in 1950. From there I went to West Virginia State on a scholarship playing football. I was in West Virginia State for two years. The draft board was, I guess they were eager to draft all the young men that … I don’t know how they was classifying it or whatever, but I was getting letters from the draft board I think twice a month. They wanted to get my grade from the school. Wanted to know what my status was.
So I came home on vacation after that second year, I went to … work. During the time the summer was going my brother, he started talking to me about joining the Air Force. I didn’t even have that on my mind because I wanted to finish college. He kept after me. Then he said he was going to try to talk mom into signing for him to go in. But mom made it clear if I didn’t go in, she wasn’t signing. Because he wasn’t old enough. He was only 17. So she had to sign in order for him to be eligible. So finally he kept bugging me about it and I agreed. I said, “Well I might as well go and join up, get it over with so they won’t draft me.” So I joined the Air Force.
Gillian Demetriou:
What year was that?
Roy Riller:
1952. Joined the United States Air Force. I think I assigned … I was in the strategic air command. I worked my way up to being a crew chief. Which – a crew chief’s job is taking control of a plane whatever … You don’t have to be in the bomb squad. You could be in a refueling squadron, or a fighter squadron. But my job was to take over an airplane because that’s what my commander wanted me to do because I was just a mechanic before, he kind of forced me into taking this plane. Once he did, I was a crew chief. I was a crew chief for the rest of my time in the Air Force. I went to Korea and stayed nine months [inaudible 00:06:16]. Servicing night fighters. Once they re-embarked me and sent me home, I went to work at McGuire Air Force base. I stayed in the reserves for 14 years. They started Vietnam and that’s when I walked out, I quit and I came home.
They never tried to get me to come back, which – when you go in the Air Force, you’re not supposed to be able to out. You can be released, but as long as they feel like you can do your job, you have to stay in. It was a requirement. But they never bothered me after I came out. My commander called me and talked to me a few times trying to get me to come back. But I just wasn’t going back to war, especially fighting that kind of war like they were doing in Vietnam. So I just went to work. I had to go to work. I finally got in my union, which is operating engineers. I stayed in there 42 years, raising my family, trying to get them situated where my kids could go to college and get an education and live as good as I could give them. A man of my means. So I did that.
My son has a degree. He has a business degree from Norfolk University. My oldest daughter, she has a degree from Hampton University. She has a business degree. My baby daughter, she graduated from A&T in North Carolina with a degree in accounting. She came home and she played at it for maybe three months and then I seen her, she said, “Dad, I want to take a vacation.” I said, “Where you going to go?” She said, “I want to go to Italy.” I did a back flip and I wasn’t even an acrobat. “Italy? Are you kidding me?”
But she was gone with the fellow that graduated with her … and he was playing basketball. So he was overseas playing basketball while in Italy. So I took her to, at that time it was Kennedy Airport, I took her there and put her on a plane and sent her to Italy. She stayed six months. She came home and she told me she wanted to go to law school. So I sent her to law school. She’s been a lawyer now for almost 30 years.
Gillian Demetriou:
Wow.
Roy Riller:
So she has a dual degree, plus she is a college professor now, too. She teaches law at Morgan State. From there I got grandkids. I have nine grandkids and I have five great-grandkids.
Gillian Demetriou:
Wow.
Roy Riller:
I just had my grandson graduate from, he graduated from Severna Park [sp?] Senior High School. He graduated Summa Cum Laude, and he’s pursuing a career in theatrical. I just had my granddaughter, she graduated from Rutgers. She graduated Summa Cum Laude. She’s pursuing a degree in … I can’t remember everything…let me bring up these pictures….
Gillian Demetriou:
That’s amazing.
Roy Riller:
Yeah. They always tease me and say I’m the one that started all of this. So I just go along with it. Let me see… (interview pauses)
Roy Riller:
I came in New Jersey, 1942. All right?
Kay Harris:
What was it like on Springwood Avenue back then?
Roy Riller:
It was like being in Hollywood. Springwood Avenue back then. I mean, for us being in that part of the Asbury Park, we had everything we needed right there on Springwood Avenue. We didn’t even have to go across the tracks going downtown for anything.
Kay Harris:
Tell us about some of the stories you remember, and places you’ve been to specifically on Springwood?
Roy Riller:
On Springwood Avenue? Well, I’ll start – the first store coming into Asbury, which is right down from where the Catholic church was, was Mr. Ravens [sp?]. Mr. Ravens was a neighborhood grocery store. All the kids that lived around that area knew how to get to Mr. Ravens, because that’s where we could get all the penny candy and bubble gum and all the good things. Because then candy was candy. Hershey bars, you could get a big Hershey for a nickel. Everything was great. And Mr. Raven, he was always so nice to the kids.
Now on the Neptune side, there was the Steady Raymond store. Steady Raymond’s had a store on the Neptune side, and on the corner on the street I lived on, which was Myrtle Ave, we had Minnie.
Kay Harris:
What was it?
Roy Riller:
Minnie’s. She was an Italian lady. The store was named Minnie’s. Down on the next block was Jimmy’s. There was another neighborhood store. We could go in and enjoy ourselves, get whatever you want, get sandwiches or whatever. Coming back in Asbury now, we’re passing Mr. Ravens, we’d go on to Butler’s store, neighborhood store. Which was a good store for the neighborhood because he dealt in vegetables and all the little things that people needed in a family. I mean, he didn’t have clothes in there or anything. It was just a grocery store with the necessary meat counter.
You could get meat. When you left Mr. Ravens, I mean, Mr. Butlers, Mr. Griffin had a business across the street. Because he had a store where you can buy clothes and he had a laundry mat where they did washing and shirts and stuff. He did pressing in there and all that good stuff. In that area they had the union hall, which was the labor’s union hall. Then across the street it was a bar which was a neighborhood bar there. I’m trying to think of the name of it right now. Down farther past Mt. [inaudible 00:15:02] Pisgah, Mr. Johnson at a gas station on the corner. He had an Esso gas station there. Next to that, well across the street we had … I’m trying to think of his name now. He had a restaurant where you could go in and get any kind of soul food you wanted.
Kay Harris:
Was it [inaudible 00:15:27]? Sonny Honeys?
Roy Riller:
Oh no, no. They were way down the street. I’m trying to think of his name. I don’t know. I’m trying to think, was his name …. Chets? Ard, you remember the name of that restaurant?
Arden Thorne:
Say it again?
Roy Riller:
You remember the name of that restaurant, it was right down the street. It was right there almost next to where Mt. Pisgah church is on that corner. You remember Mr. Johnson had that gas station?
Arden Thorne:
Yeah.
Roy Riller:
And across the street?
Arden Thorne:
Chet’s?
Roy Riller:
I think it was Chet’s.
Arden Thorne:
Chet’s.
Roy Riller:
Yeah. Then away from Chet’s-
Arden Thorne:
Back in Atkins and Springwood.
Roy Riller:
They had the bar that was across the street, was that The Capital?
Arden Thorne:
Yeah.
Roy Riller:
That was The Capital. Then across the street from that they had a barber shop, and what was-
Arden Thorne:
Tony’s.
Roy Riller:
Huh? No, they had the-
Arden Thorne:
Tony’s barber shop.
Roy Riller:
No, they had, what’s his name?
Kay Harris:
Eddy?
Roy Riller:
No, Mr. Eddy, he worked in there. It was, oh god what was his name? I can’t think of his name right now.
Arden Thorne:
Not talk’n about Cuba?
Roy Riller:
Yeah, Cuba.
Arden Thorne:
Cuba’s Barber shop?
Roy Riller:
Yeah.
Arden Thorne:
We had a drugstore.
Roy Riller:
Then we had the West Side Drugstore on the corner. The West Side Drugstore. [crosstalk 00:17:11; Kay to Arden: “And you tried to tell me you didn’t remember anything!”]
Arden Thorne:
A lot of this stuff, it’s been so long ago.
Roy Riller:
We had the West Side-
Arden Thorne:
I’m not a 16 year old boy anymore. Half the time I don’t even remember my own name. [Laughter]
Roy Riller:
Now in the West Side Drugstore, Mr. Johnson, he was the pharmacist there. His son worked in there. We had a man, his name was – we called him Mr. Walter. He ran the store, but he wasn’t the pharmacist, Mr. Johnson was the pharmacist. Across the street from there was a hotel. I’m trying to think of the name of the hotel but right now I can’t really think of the name of that hotel. It was right on that corner across the street. Across from that, now this is [inaudible 00:18:00] Atkins Avenue, across from that hotel on that corner with the American store. American store was there. Across the street from the America store it was a cleaners, there on that corner. And next to that was the barber shop, next to the cleaners. When you left that cleaners that was Cuba’s lot. It was a big parking lot.
Arden Thorne:
[inaudible 00:18:32]. Used to be Roseland Hall.
Roy Riller:
That was Cuba’s lot. Then next to Cuba’s lot was Cuba’s. Cuba’s was there. Now coming back across the street by the American store was Brownie’s liquor store. And he had a cocktail lounge in there. Brownie, like I say, right there Brownie he had a package store and he had a cocktail lounge, because in those days they didn’t allow a cocktail lounge to sell liquor to come outside. So he had his own package store. From there we had – between Brownie’s we had Miss Daisy. Miss Daisy had a restaurant there. Then from Miss Daisy’s, on that same side it was some apartment house there, upstairs and downstairs. In that complex was Little Jack’s Shoe Shop. Little Jack had a shoe shop there. Next to the Little Jack’s we had, it might’ve been another couple of little businesses there. Then we had the Savoy Ballroom.
Now across the street, where Cuba’s was, we had, at one time it was a movie theater there. And once the movie theater closed down, they opened the pool room there and plus they had a bowling alley there. They had a bowling alley; the bowling alley flourished for a little while, but black people wasn’t really into bowling so that wasn’t a thriving business. The young guys started using the pool room because it was somewhere to hang out. Because I tried to hang out there too, but I wasn’t old enough but I was trying to fake it until Sydney, not Sydney Hawkins- trying to think his name. He was a member of this church. He was a policeman at that time. His name will come to me in a minute. But he caught me in there one day. When I saw him I was trying to … Because in the middle of that room there was a door that was open you could go into Freddie’s. Freddie had a hot dog stand next door and you could go inside the Freddie’s. Order something and come back in.
I was trying to get around the wall to get into Freddie’s, but he caught me and he says, “What you doing in here?” Quite nicely I thought of a lie quick. I said, “I came in looking for my brother because he got the key and I can’t get in the house.” [Laughter] So he said, “How old are you?” I said, “I’m 17.” I might not even been 17, I told him I was 17. He said, “Well, look, don’t let me catch you back in here until after you turn 18, okay?” I said, “Yes sir.” And he let me go and I didn’t go back in there until after I turned 18 too. Because them cops didn’t play back then. No, once they were on you, that was your final ticket.
But anyway I didn’t try to hang out in there anymore. Now across the street from the pool room where the Savoy Ballroom was – I mean, they used to have a lot of good shows. They had dances and stuff. It was good for people because people liked, after they work all week, they liked to have somewhere to go and let off steam. They’re raising kids and they needed something to let off the pressure. We used to sneak down in and watch them dancing in there, stuff like that. From there we had Little Wonder Market, which was owned by Italians.
Kay Harris:
What was the name of the market?
Roy Riller:
Little Wonder. Yeah. Then we had, next to that we had, trying to think of his name now. He used to put all these vegetables outside in the front. He had a nice store too.
Kay Harris:
You remember the market was owned by a Danny Devito’s father?
Roy Riller:
Well that’s Danny’s now. That’s going back down. Danny’s was on the corner of, let’s see, we coming back from Ridge to Madison, right? See Danny’s was right there on the corner where you go to the community center.
Kay Harris:
On Dewitt Avenue?
Roy Riller:
Dewitt, he was right on the corner of Dewitt. Danny’s was there, oh yeah I remember. I remember little Danny. Because we used to go, that was our main hangout when we could stay out a little late, was hanging out in Danny’s playing pinball machines. So we used to go in there and cheat the machine. Because Danny would pay us a nickel for each game we turned in. So we learned how to cheat the machines and run up a lot of games. So he’d come out, because he mostly stayed in the back because he had guys that – running the place cooking and doing-
Kay Harris:
So it was a restaurant?
Roy Riller:
Yeah, it was a restaurant. He sold hamburgers, sausage sandwiches, hot dogs, stuff like that. He had ice cream bar, made milkshakes and he had pies and all the good stuff. If you had a quarter in your pocket, you could go there and eat. But anyway, he was a nice guy, Danny. He was very nice. Little Danny, he used to come from school. When he came from school, he’d come straight to the soda shop and stay until, til, I guess, his daddy got ready to go home. And he would take him home because Danny went to school on Bangs Avenue, because they had Mount Carmel Catholic School on Bangs Avenue.
Kay Harris:
Right, right down the street from Bangs Avenue School. The corner of Prospect and Bangs?
Roy Riller:
Yeah, where that church is now? Well that was Mount Carmel school.
Kay Harris:
Right.
Roy Riller:
He used to walk down with his little book bag. He was a little short, chubby. He’d be walking on singing his little songs. So one day, because he used to squeal on us when he’d catch us cheating the machine. He’d go in the back and tell his daddy and his daddy would come and look. But he never came out and said anything to us because that’s how he was. He didn’t really care and whatever. We’d tell him, when we get ready to go, we tell whoever was working in the front. We tell them, “Go back and get Mr. Danny so we didn’t collect our games.” He said, “How many games you got?” “We got 25.” And he’d give you a nickel a game. So that was a lot of money to have in your pocket then as a kid.
But it was a lot of fun. It was all in fun. But one day I was at the community center and I was coming out and I heard him singing. Little Danny! He’d come along singing. So I hid behind the hedges because they had them big hedges there. So I hid and – we had made a little pathway between the hedges to go out through the hedges instead of going all the way around to the front and going out on the sidewalk. So when he got down where I was squatting down, I snatched him. I put my hand over his mouth and I carried him to the back. We had to go down the dumb waiter to go down into the basement. So I threw him down and – I didn’t even throw him, I just put him down in there. And then I closed the doors and I put a stick through the handle. So he couldn’t push them open and he was hollering and I left cause I was laughing, it was a joke to me.
So I went on down to the soda shop. And when I got in there, I started mingling with the guys and I forgot that I did it. So his father came out and he was looking around, I guess he was – cause he was late. I guess his father was wondering where the heck he was, and I ran out boy and I ran down there. And when I snatched the stick out and opened the door, he shot up out of it like a rabbit. [Laughter] And he didn’t go to soda shop. He took off back going towards home because they live down in that area. He had wet all on itself, I was still laughing cause it was funny to me.
So I went back to the soda shop a couple of days later and he was there and he came out from the back. And he looked out and saw me and he said, “You crazy, you crazy.” And he ran back in the back and I was just cracking up. And the guy said, “Why is he saying that to you?” So I told him what I had done. He said, “You are crazy.”
But it was all in fun. [inaudible 00:00:28:52; Kay: “How old were you?”] I might’ve been 14, 15. I was already in high school, but it was funny. And every time he would see me he say, “You crazy.” So when they made the movie Throw Momma From The Train, he came home for the premier of it. They been having the premier of it down at the paramount. So I hadn’t made up my mind. I said, “I’m going to go down there and see, can I see him?” So I went down there and finally I did see him. He came out and he looked at me and he ran and jumped on me. He said, “You’re still crazy.” And everybody was looking at me holding him. Cause I’m a grown man now, he was funny. He said, “Yeah, you still crazy.”
And I was the big joke between me and him. Cause he said I was crazy, but I was just having fun. And I haven’t seen him no more than seeing him on television since then, because his mama was still living there when he came for that premier and everything. And they had a big home coming and all that. They had a parade for him in Asbury, and it was a big weekend, but I had – he said, “You come in and see me.” “Nah.” I said, “Once I go home, I’m not, I’m tired. I can’t.” I said, “Cause I got too many things I got to do.” “No you got to come.” Cause then his dad didn’t have soda shop anymore. But he was trying to get me to come down there to the Berkeley Carteret, whatever, man. [inaudible 00:30:39; Kay: Maybe we’ll be able to get him back here again.”] He probably still think I’m crazy.
[break in the recording]
Arden Thorne:
Okay. Most of the things that I would even tell you about would be almost the same as what he spoke on. Yeah. If you met anybody out of Asbury Park, even me, during World War II being overseas, you said you were from Asbury Park, the first thing they would ask you, “Do you know where Springwood Avenue at?” It was like the main thoroughfare coming in. Yeah, but Asbury Park and also Neptune was the place to be in those days. It was an exciting town to be in. To see it today I can’t believe it because, well, if I live to see August the 5th, I’ll be 97 years old and I’ve seen a lot of changes made. Lot of changes made, and a lot of people have changed. I don’t think, well that was see the old Asbury Park like we had it years ago.
In fact, this past week I took a ride down by the beach. I hadn’t been down there in years. Her grandfather was the person that went… I didn’t know him personally, but I used to see him on the beach down there because the beach was very segregated and everything else. And he was the only one that I knew, would go on the beach. Cause he was the only one allowed on the beach and he used to make models down there, and the models were terrific. I tell you, I don’t know anybody, or seen anybody, ever do it like that. And of course the church, the same church we’re in now was on Sylvan Avenue. I’ve lived through 14 new priests that we’ve had. The one we have now makes the 14th priest that I’ve been here on the-
Kay Harris:
St. Augustine Episcopal Church.
Roy Riller:
St. Augustine Episcopal Church, That’s my church. I also got acquainted with Second Baptist because my wife used to belong to Second Baptist. And even today they think I belong to Second Baptist, as much as I belong here.
But I said, that was an exciting place to be. We had the nightclubs, Cuba’s, as he explained, we had Cuba’s nightclub. People used to come down from New York with the chauffeurs and that lot that’s on the side where Cuba’s was. Yeah, that was a dance hall. And it burnt down.
Roy Riller:
It burned down.
Arden Thorne:
Yes. Yeah. But outside of most of the things that he has already told you, I don’t know how much more I can add to this. But like I said, we had movie houses, Saint James, Paramount, Lyric. Now I think there’s only one theater in the whole vicinity of the shore, in Asbury Bark. And that’s in Bradley Beach. The Mayfair, Paramount, St. James, all those are gone.
Kay Harris:
You did have the [inaudible]. But there was just a small, independent, not a real full theater…
Roy Riller:
In those days of the movies we had to sit upstairs. You know, we went to the movies and our main movie was on Madison Avenue, the Savoy Theater. We’d sit upstairs and we used to throw popcorn bags, full of water down on the people, just being devilish kids [laughter]. And sometimes we’d get in fights, cause some of those guys would try to act tough and come upstairs, like there was gone whoop us, and they was doing the wrong thing because it was too many of us, but it was all in fun.
But, but getting back Springwood Avenue and we had businesses like Sophie’s dress shop, we had – then across the street, we had a hotel that belonged to [inaudible] Then we had Scoops, which was a restaurant. We called it Scoops. And across the street we had, besides Sophie’s, there was a hair salon and a barbers shop. Jimmy’s barber shop. Down from Scoops, there was another beauty shop. I forgot the name of it. Now we get into the corner where we had a store on the corner, which was a five and 10 cent store. And across from that we had, while we had Paramount Paint and then across from that corner of that same corner, we had Chicks. Chicks Busy Bee. Yeah. And then next to Chicks Busy Bee. We had Bunks and Carter’s, which the second black drug store on Springfield avenue. We had black druggists in there and they had an ice cream parlor in there where they used to dip up real ice cream…
Kay Harris:
You sit they was the second. Who was the first, do you know?
Roy Riller:
I don’t know which one was in business first, whether it was west side – you see Mr. Johnson, I don’t think they owned that building, but they ran it as the west side drug store, but where Bunce and Carter’s was, I think they owned that business [Kay: “Yes, they did.”] because I used to go in there and get cream. They were very nice to kids.
From there we had Candy Land. Then we had Candy Land on the same side as Chicks. Now when Candy Land was open across the street from Candy Land, we had a bakery, and next to that bakery – well the same block, like it ran straight – but see that Prospect Avenue came out into Springwood and we had M & B Beef Company… where you could go in and get all kinds of meat cut and sliced like you wanted. And they had, what was his name? He used to run up down the street, selling dresses and stuff. What was his name? [crosstalk 00:10:33] a little Jewish guy.
Arden Thorne:
Oh, I know who you’re talking about. I can’t call his name right this second.
[crosstalk]
Arden Thorne:
Seymour.
Roy Riller:
Seymour had his business and then there was a furniture store there . . . [Arden interjects: “Seymore Sales?”] . . . there was a furniture store down there too. One store I didn’t name was Fisch’s. Fisch’s was down there in that area…. and that was the main clothing store in Springfield Avenue. Cause you could, you could get clothes for the whole family in Fishers. You didn’t have to go no farther. You could get ladies dresses, lingerie, stockings, men’s shoes, socks, whatever kids shoes.
Arden Thorne:
The big joke about the Avenue was anything that might be needed or wanted was on that avenue. Now I laugh – today, you go to the market, they tell you this is a fresh chicken. There’s no such thing as a fresh chicken now! We had two chicken markets on Springwood Avenue. There was one at the railroad and Jewish people had one on this side.
Roy Riller:
Right.
Arden Thorne:
And it was, you walked in, you saw chickens running around in a pen. You said, “I love to have that one right there.” They would grab that chicken, twist him…
Roy Riller:
That’s right.
Arden Thorne:
Put them in the pot, to get the feathers off and everything that was fresh chicken. [crosstalk 00:39:09]
Roy Riller:
Say, if you wanted a roaster, they got you a roaster. They cut it up. Just like you want it. Yeah. [crosstalk 00:39:18]
Arden Thorne:
You get no fresh chicken today. Have them in cold storage houses and everything else. They don’t know how long that they really, oh boy…
Roy Riller:
It’s like I say everything. You could get everything fresh if you wanted it on Springwood Avenue. See, because where that chicken market was, they had a Jewish store there too. And he used to have all this stuff hanging up in the windows, big meat and rolls of cheese and all that good stuff. And inside he had these big barrels full of pickle, like that big pickles, the dill pickles in the barrel. Buy them one at a time, a dozen or whatever they cut up and cheese meat, whatever you want. You know, we used to go in and get sandwiches. [crosstalk; Kay: “You remember pickled pig feet?” Arden: “Yes, yes.”]
Roy Riller:
They had peanuts, they had their own machine roasted peanuts, and it was a few stores had their own popcorn machines. They sold these popcorn balls, they had candy apples and all this good stuff. And like he said, they had these places where they had chickens, you could go in and just point out what you want. And you tell him, you want a fried chicken. And they go in, grabbing him, and dress him up, and put everything you want to inside the wrap, when they wrapped it. Because if you didn’t want the the feet, or the neck and all that, he’d throw it away. They had barrels, they threw that stuff in because they sold all that stuff to these people that had pig farms, they would come and get that stuff.
And then they had like next to… When you cross the street, when you crossed Prospect and went toward the railroad, they had stores in there and then on both sides and they had this cold storage place where you could go in and get all kinds of meat cut up, pig, whatever they had it.
And when you cross the railroad tracks, before you got to main street, they had stores, but most of the stuff we needed was right on this side of the railroad. We didn’t even have to cross the railroad for anything. Unless you just felt like you was rich enough to go downtown and splurge giving your money away because we didn’t have to. They had everything right on Springwood Avenue we needed.
And everybody was happy because people was family back then. And you know, it was a village raising the child because if anybody saw you doing anything wrong, they would catch and give you a whooping and take you home and you’d get another whooping. You know what I’m saying? So we tried to be good when we was out in the public eye, we didn’t want nobody to see us doing something crazy. Even if we were playing because people cannot understand sometime play for real. Right? It was all in fun. It was nice growing up in-
Arden Thorne:
We also had a clothing store called Murray’s. Okay. I was over there. Murray’s store is still in existence, but not in Asbury or Neptune is it’s in Bradley Beach. Then I went over there and…because of course Mr. Murray – he’s been passed away years ago… I laughed because first time I ever had to put on long underwear was because of them. And the only place I ever got long underwear was at Murray’s and he told me “Don’t come in here complaining about being cold no more.” Yeah. But now his store is still in Bradley Beach. Used to be on this side of the railroad, went down. Then as the years went on, he went down, cross the railroad and it was on the main street.
Roy Riller:
It was on main street, right off that corner. I used to go in there and buy stuff. We’d get caps from him and socks, for the winter time, you could get boots and all that good stuff from him. Cause he sold all that stuff. You could get all that stuff from Fisher’s if you needed it. Cause they had it whatever you needed as a kid.
Kay Harris:
What about the House of Hits? Remember that? Or was that years later? House of Hits, the music store . . . the record store?
Arden Thorne:
[crosstalk] I knew because I was a collector of records myself. In fact, I just lost a good friend in Mack Owens. Did you know him? You knew Teen Thomas [sp?], the years ago – they had a brother that worked at, what we just spoke about, at Chicks. His name was Bubbles, well we called him Bubbles. Well, his sister’s husband passed away just a week ago. We just buried him Monday. Let’s see, I don’t know [unintelligible] if Teen was around at the time and … don’t recall. But Chicks was on the corner of Sylvan Avenue and Springwood. And Bubbles, he used to work here.
Kay Harris:
Okay. I used to go to Chicks when I was little, buying the candy you were talking about. Yeah.
Arden Thorne:
Got caught in there many a day. My mother would send me to church and Sunday school and I’d stop in there. Pie a la mode, hot dogs, all that kind of stuff. Did you know, Battles? He was our organ player for the church.
Kay Harris:
Oh, yes, yes. Of course he’s gone now. And I would hear him, hit that organ, and he’s got a good voice. And I know I wasn’t supposed to be in Chick’s, you’d see me running up Sylvan down to get church. [laughter]
Arden Thorne:
What about Sunny Honeys?
Roy Riller:
[crosstalk 00:45:26] Now we’re going to get to Sonny Honey’s. [Kay: Ooh, alright.] Candy land had that business. They stayed open a long time when I was growing up. And finally… We had this teacher, she was a substitute teacher when I first met her. She and her husband opened up Candy Land, and the Sunny Honey. And Sunny Honey stayed there for quite a while.
Kay Harris:
Wasn’t that the Wilson’s?
Arden Thorne:
Oh, he used to live down the street. She lived on [crosstalk 00:00:46:09] the 200 block of Myrtle Ave.
Arden Thorne:
Yeah.
Roy Riller:
Cause she was a substitute teacher. When I first met her, she was a substitute teacher.
Kay Harris:
Then eventually she became a permanent.
Roy Riller:
She became a permanent teacher, but I was out of school. Then I was going to college.
Kay Harris:
Augustine Wilson, I think was her name.
Roy Riller:
Augustine was her name.
Kay Harris:
And Buzz, her husband.
Roy Riller:
Yeah. Well they opened up Sonny Honey.
Roy Riller:
Well she lived in the next block from me, on Myrtle Avenue.
Roy Riller:
Because I came home one year and somebody asked me, “You seen Ms. Wilson?” I said, “No, I haven’t seen her yet.”
Arden Thorne:
You know who was a great person on the avenue to, Mrs. Eve? Did you ever know her? She used to have a place between Dewitt and what’s the street of the street back this way from [inaudible 00:47:02] Dewitt Avenue.
Roy Riller:
Borden Ave.
Arden Thorne:
Well between [inaudible] Borden Avenue but she was a social worker, but she was very active as far as helping people in those days.
Roy Riller:
Oh, that bar right there, the bar I was trying to think of between Dewitt Avenue and [inaudible] Borden Avenue was a Hollywood Bar. That was the name of that bar, now it stayed packed because a lot of construction workers, and when they get on work, they just head straight for the Hollywood because they, a union hall was across the street and some of those guys, they went there every day to the union hall when they came out their job to make sure they still had a job, and they’d pay they dues, whatever. They’d go straight into Hollywood.
Kay Harris:
Let me ask you a question. When you were a little bit older, did any of you go to the Turf Club or the Orchid Lounge?
Arden Thorne:
My brother one time owned the Turf Club, him and [crosstalk 00:48:01] Bill Reed…
Kay Harris:
Oh, that was your brother? [crosstalk 00:48:16]
Arden Thorne:
Yeah, he’s 89.
Roy Riller:
…the Orchid Lounge came into play back – like in the later seventies, maybe…
Kay Harris:
Later on.
Roy Riller:
So he didn’t – cause see the Hampton Inn was on the corner of [inaudible 00:48:26] Drummond Avenue. That was the Hampton Inn and Big Bill and his brothers, they took it over-
Roy Riller:
Andy.
Roy Riller:
Andy was his brother’s name, and John Mudd. They all was in business together. So they opened it up and they changed the name and then.
Kay Harris:
You mean it changed it to Big Bills?
Roy Riller:
Yeah. So after that, they opened up a place on Prospect Avenue because that’s where the factories was as you pass, you go down, like a block from that, from the corner of Springwood, they had a place there. And then [crosstalk 00:49:17; Kay: “Between Prospect and Memorial Drive? Odysey Moore opened up the place you were talking about.”]
[crosstalk]
Roy Riller:
He opened up the Orchid Lounge. And that went on for years until-
Arden Thorne:
I bet there isn’t another town around that had what Asbury Park has had. Which is a bar or liquor place almost in every spot. [laughter]
Kay Harris:
And we had a share of churches too.
Roy Riller:
[crosstalk 00:49:55] At that time as a kid, I was going to St. Peter Claver because I am a Catholic. Oh, okay. See when you’re a Catholic, you have no choice because if your parents are Catholic, you were born a Catholic. Yeah. As soon as you’re born priest come in and baptize you then. My Dad was Catholic, so my Mom was Baptist, but she had to go to classes and stuff like that before they could get married because that was a requirement then. She had to know how to do certain things, marrying a Catholic person. So, but I always stayed in the Catholic church, me and my brother, George, until I come out of the service. He just stopped going to church. But I went to Saint Peter … Claver church until they closed. Once he closed, I started coming here because my wife was Episcopalian and she had already joined this church.
And then you know my kids, my youngest two kids, I had them baptized and confirmed in this church. My son stayed on that alter until he went to college. And it was a funny thing. I came to church one Sunday and I used to help out because I knew how to do it. Being an altar boy, you never forget these things. And see the Catholic church is strict. They was back then because Pope John was running things. That was before politics got in and I came in and I was up there setting up. And then Father Elder came in and he’s looking around. So he came in the sacristy because I was getting the sacraments to bring to [inaudible] to the back. He nodded his head and then he said, “Riller, where is Rayford?” And I said, Father, “Rayford’s in the college.” He said, “In college?!” Because he looked like he was 12 years old when he went to college. And he said “In college?!” I said, “Yes, sir. He’s in college. He’s in Norfolk state in Virginia.” And he couldn’t believe it, he was upset because these kids he had in here, as acolytes they didn’t know what to do. Cause Rayford was in charge. But I had already set up most of the sacraments in order for him to do what he had to do when he come in and open.
Kay Harris:
How old were you at that point?
Roy Riller:
Me? Oh, I was in my thirties. I was in my mid thirties because when Rayford was born, I think I was 29. When your daddy delivered Rayford my wife had told me “if we going to have a son., we better get busy, because we getting old.” I said, “She drunk, already she’s sitting there drinking.” I’m mixing these whiskey sours for her. [laughter] Cause I drink bourbon, hundred proof. I felt good and I just looked at her and we got busy. Nine months later, your daddy delivered that boy, [crosstalk 00:53:17]
Gillian Demetriou:
Where did you meet your wife?
Roy Riller:
I met my wife, we were in Virginia …My wife went to Virginia Union and at that time we were playing football., against Virginia Union, And [crosstalk 00:53:34] I was at West Virginia State And I met her and then, her sister was living Neptune. So when my wife decided to leave school, she came to Neptune and that’s when we got serious because I hadn’t been in the war then, I was still in the military, but we got together and got married. I wasn’t even thinking about getting married. I mean was, like I told you, I was still a little messed up. But anyway, we got married and it worked out, because we’ve been married 30 something years before my wife passed away.
We had gotten the kids situated and on their feet, they wasn’t finished, but I had to finish it with them to get them… Because when kids graduate from college, they’re not ready to be on they own, because they don’t have no money in the bank.
Kay Harris:
Exactly.
Roy Riller:
They don’t even know which way is up [crosstalk 00:54:34] because they haven’t experienced life. They know about education, but they didn’t experience living on their own in life, taking care of all the responsibility. And you have to stay with them until their feet are solid on the ground. And because if you don’t have enough sense to know that, then you’re just creating a problem for them and you.
See, and a lot of people, I hear people talk, “I can’t wait until my kids get out of college. I’m throwing them out. They’re on their own because I done did all I’m going to do.” Your kids are not ready to be on their own yet. You see, they’re not used to living up by themselves, paying rent and all that good stuff. You have to stay with them till you know that they are balanced, and ready to do the things they need to do to have a good life for themselves.
Kay Harris:
Beautiful.
Roy Riller:
And they don’t need to jump in to get married, right. You know, because my kids didn’t do that. They waited. Finally, they got themselves together and where they thought they were on their own. Every once in a while they’ll call you and say, “Dad, I need a little help.” You just got to write a check and send it. Hope that they make the best of it. And it worked out, because I have no regrets. My kids are on their own, they’re doing okay. And I’m happy. Like I say, I’ve got nine grandkids and five great grandkids. And I’m very happy to still be here to see them prosper, and do what they’re doing.
Kay Harris:
You did a beautiful job.
Gillian Demetriou:
Amazing.
Kay Harris:
Can we talk a little bit about the beach front?
Roy Riller:
The beach front?
Kay Harris:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:56:21] And then let me see, we’re going to go back when you first moved to [crosstalk 00:56:24] Asbury –
Roy Riller:
When I first moved to Asbury… I couldn’t wait to get to the beach front, because I’m a water person. So my first experience of getting to the beach front, was to just explore and look around, and see what the environment had for me. I went down and got on the boardwalk, to Lake Avenue. And I walked all the way down by that lake, and went all way to the beach front, got on the boardwalk. And I looked at my right and that was the old, I call it the… See on the left side was a Palace Amusement. And on that side was that-
Kay Harris:
The casino, the power plant.
Roy Riller:
… the casino. That building is still there.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
It’s old, and gutted out, but…
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
It’s still there. And when I got to the casino I walked through, because they got a… It’s like walking through, down on by the convention hall.
Kay Harris:
Yeah, through the arcade.
Roy Riller:
I walked through looking, they had games and stuff in there. Merry-go-round… different other little games. And I walked through, and I went on the Ocean Groove side. Just to look.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
Because it’s all new to me. Because I wasn’t used to no, board walk and ocean like that. So I’m looking and I see where this pipe came out of that lake. And that [inaudible 00:58:10] lake, Wesley Lake. Now that big pipe was sticking out, where you could see the end of it.
Kay Harris:
Wow!
Roy Riller:
And it’s heading straight toward the ocean, because of the little channel there. And I’m wondering, “What the heck is up pipe? With all that water out there? And what is that pipe doing there?” It was just in my mind.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
I looked at it for a while, and there might’ve been two or three black people splashing around in the water, in that ocean part.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
So I left and went down the board walk towards the convention hall, and I’m looking.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
I look out into the water. I don’t see nobody black out there. And there was people lying around in the sand. But it was in September, so wasn’t a lot of people on the beach.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
Because it was time for the beach to be closing.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
It was Labor Day, the beach usually close.
Kay Harris:
Right.
Roy Riller:
I’m walking, but people, as long as they’re getting a little sunshine, they’re going to come to the beach. I don’t care what’s happening.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
I walked all the way down to the convention hall, and I’m looking at all the amusements on both sides.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
Of Ocean Avenue, because they had all kinds of rides and games….as well as the businesses on the left side, which wasn’t a lot of businesses. And then I get down to the convention hall. I go in, so I could go through the convention hall.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
And I’m looking, at this different little things set up in the convention hall. And I go out on the other side on the board walk, and I walked down to almost to where Loch Arbour starts. And I stand at the beach front right there.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
When you get to Loch Arbour, well I turned around and came back.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
Well they had that big Monte Carlo swimming pool….
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
On the other side are the Berkeley Carteret… We had all these little hotels and things in the background, because there was a lot of little neighborhood hotels around in Asbury then.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
So by the time I walked back… I’m coming down Kingsley Street then.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
So they had a garage on the left side, Kingsley Street had…a big garage… And I walked past staring at a few hotels, and little business on the right-hand side. I get back to Cookman Avenue, so I started walking down Cookman Avenue just to look. And that’s when I started seeing all the stores, and all the things. I saw Steinbach’s was open, all these little stores on the side.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
And on the corner as you’re coming back….There was a drugstore on the left, there was a dress shop… On the other side of the street.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
It was called…
Kay Harris:
Was it Dainty Apparel? [crosstalk] And they had the Liggett’s Drugstore across from Steinbachs? The side there [crosstalk]
Roy Riller:
Down on this side. That dress store was a famous store.
Roy Riller:
And because I used to walk by sometimes, and these models would be walking up and down with the dresses on. And I’d just be looking in the window, because it looks so nice. Then they had… they had an Italian men’s store there. In that area where that drugstore was, they had this Italian men’s store. It always had nice clothes hanging in the windows, and stuff. And I walked on down, and they had five and ten cent stores. They had two five and 10 cent stores on the left. They had Tom McCann’s corner. They had… a shirt shop. They had Buster Brown shoes.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
And they had the Asbury Park Press down there. They had a bank. Then they had another newspaper office called The Sun. Because when we first started selling papers, we went to the press just to check things out. And then we had some friends [inaudible 01:02:39] tell us. Man, don’t sell. Go over to The Sun, because you can make more money. We went through The Sun, and started selling papers through The Sun. And the guy who owned The Sun. He was such a nice man. He had people take us on trips. He used to take us to the ball games in New York. Cause he had a bus to take us, and they would feed us, and give us refreshments. And we still had a job. The Press didn’t do that. And when they’d had wrestling matches in Asbury, and we used to go to the wrestling matches, and didn’t have to pay any money. And it was just a lot of good things going on. But [inaudible 01:03:25] they was in competition with the Press…I guess the Press had more money, because they survived the bad times. Because everything was working away from the Depression.
Kay Harris:
Let me ask you a question. Did you feel comfortable shopping on Cookman Avenue, or did you do any shopping there, or you were probably kind of young, so you weren’t really-
Roy Riller:
The first time I started to go to shop on that side of the tracks was at Murray’s. I used to go to Murray’s. From there I graduated – on that next corner, was Cookman Avenue. Came out, and that was Bob and Irvin. I decided to go in and look at clothes. Cause now I’m about 15, 16 years old. And then I had money ‘cause I always kept good jobs. I said, “I’ll go in and look at some clothes, and maybe I’ll buy something.”
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
I went in and looked [inaudible] at the man. He came over and talked to me and he followed me around. He said, “what do you like?” I said, “Well, I’m thinking about buying a suit.” So he said, “Well, let me fix you up.” He measured me out and everything.
Kay Harris:
Okay.
Roy Riller:
Had me to try on some stuff. I finally picked out a blue suit. He measured it off, and I asked him how much money I got to give him. He said, “You give me whatever you want.” And he said, “I got layaway.” So I gave him some money. He told me when to come back. And then I, when I went back, he had it ready. [crosstalk 01:05:00; Kay: “Young folks don’t know about lay-aways.”] And then I went, I went down on Cookman Avenue because they had a shirt shop down there. So I said, “I’m going to go down and look at shirts.” Because I was particular about my shirts and my ties.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
I went down there because they specialize in shirts. I went down, and they had – finally I found the shirt I really liked. It was a brand shirt. So I was buying my shirts from them, and my ties.
Kay Harris:
Okay.
Roy Riller:
And the rest of the stuff that I needed for my pocket, and all the matching stuff. And then I went, I said, “Well, I’m going to go down…” And they had a shoe store down there. I’m trying to think the name of it now. But they sold these Bostonian shoes. I said, “Well, it’s time for me to graduate to shoes.” I went down and a man fitted me up. I bought myself a pair of Bostonians. Now I’m just a teenager! So I got my shoes. My mom was wondering where I was getting all this money from. But I kept money, because I kept the job.
Kay Harris:
Well, let me just ask Arden. What kind of experiences did you have shopping in Asbury Park on Cookman Avenue?
Arden Thorne:
Never had a problem.
Kay Harris:
Yeah, okay. But did you ever –
Arden Thorne:
Well as a kid, my father -like he said, I always had a job. I would give my mother the money. And when it got time, say to go to school, or just before you go to school, she said, “Here’s your money. What you’re going to do?” I said, “I’m going to buy me a suit or something.” My father – the biggest joke about my dad. And he was a great guy, and make you laugh at things he did. He would take me over to see… There was a store called Mr. Greenberg, that was on Cookman Avenue.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Arden Thorne:
And he goes inside, he says, “I want to speak to you.” Mr. Greenberg walked over to him. He said, “this is my son.” Mr. Greenberg didn’t care who I was, he wanted to sell suits. [laughter] He says, “he likes that suit you got there. I tell you, he gets the suit, but he paying the bill.” He’s letting the man know that I could get anything I wanted in there. But he had to look to me, he couldn’t pay. [laughter] And then of course I’m-
Kay Harris:
Which store was this?
Arden Thorne:
Beg your pardon?
Kay Harris:
Which store?
Arden Thorne:
I don’t know the name of the store, but his name was Mr. Greenberg that owned it. It was one on the corner on Cookman and Main.
Kay Harris:
Okay.
Arden Thorne:
And then of course from there I went… the same, to Reed’s Jewelers. Do you remember where-
Kay Harris:
Yes I do.
Arden Thorne:
Told them the same thing, “this is my son. But whatever he get, you’re wholly responsible, he got to pay for.” My daddy was a big joker. My father worked hard all his life too. He was a chef – cook. He worked At the Sea Girt Inn, he was the chef at the Sea Girt Inn.
Kay Harris:
Wow! [crosstalk 01:08:02]
Arden Thorne:
The only time I know him not to work was when my mother got sick.
Kay Harris:
Wow.
Roy Riller:
The name of that shoe store was [Caufscous? Sp? 01:08:08]. It was [Caufscous inaudible 01:08:09].
Kay Harris:
[Caufscous 01:08:10], okay.
Roy Riller:
[Caufscous 01:08:11]. And the name of the clothing, store where I bought my first suit from over on Cookman Avenue, was Castillano’s.
Kay Harris:
Wow, good memory.
Roy Riller:
Real nice place. And there was nice people who ran it.
Kay Harris:
Okay.
Roy Riller:
When I walked in, I didn’t know. I knew how to pick clothes. Because my mom taught me how to test and pick material.
Kay Harris:
Awesome.
Roy Riller:
My mom was very dressy, and funny about clothing. And she always told me “if you buy clothes son, buy the best. Because they’re going to last you.”
Kay Harris:
Very nice.
Roy Riller:
I bought my first Hickey Freeman [sp?] from Castillano’s. And I was like 16. Now here’s a 16 year old black kid buying a rich man’s suit. And I’m in high school.
Kay Harris:
All right!
Roy Riller:
And I didn’t wear that suit until it was time for my graduation. And I went to that graduation in that Hickey Freeman. And I had on better clothes than anybody in that convention. And they were looking at me, and admiring my clothes, and how I was dressed to kill. I felt like one of the Rockefeller’s. [laughter] I had 10 to $15 in my pocket. Oh my goodness.
Kay Harris:
And your style stays with you even today. [crosstalk 01:09:41] All right. It looks like we’ve covered Springwood, and we touched on the downtown area, and we started with the beach front. I just kind of want to go back to that. And we want to know what kind of experiences might’ve been different as an African American living in this community, versus a Caucasian. You did mention the movies, how you have to sit on the balcony. Now you said you had gone to that swimming area in Ocean Grove, or between Ocean Grove and the casino. Did you actually swim in that beach as a young person?
Roy Riller:
No. Because like I told you [Arden interjects: “that was a sewer;” crosstalk 01:10:23; Roy continues] I’ve been a water dog all my life. Since My daddy threw me in this river, and walked on the way. And I started swimming. I was…
Kay Harris:
Did you have other friends though? Did you know others who swam in that section of the beach?
Roy Riller:
Well, I didn’t know any of my friends that swam in there. Because like I told you, the guys I hung out with, that I knew could swim… see, we had our own little clique. And we used to ride our bikes down to the convention hall, and we would take them around on the beach, and put them up on that overhang back there. And we would take off our clothes, and roll them up, and leave them with the bikes. And we’d go back, and go up on that deck thing, and walk around in back of Convention Hall, and we’d run and dive in the water. And we’d swim out. And once we swim out, and we’d play around, and then we make up our mind which way we were going to go. It’s, “where we going?” And “it don’t matter to me.” They’d said, “let’s go to Sandy Hook.” And we’d…take off and…go towards Sandy Hook. Sometime we’d go all the way to Atlantic Highlands before we’d stopped swimming.
Kay Harris:
Swimming!? To Atlantic Highlands?!
Roy Riller:
And then some days we’d say, “Well, let’s go to Belmar.” And we’d go on to Belmar. I mean, we stopped in between just playing and ducking and fooling around. But we never came in close enough to be in the beach. Where people jumping up – where the ropes was and all that stuff. We’d be so far out in the water. When the water rise up… See the water rises up as far as you go. You go out, you keep going up, the water rise up behind you. Can’t see the buildings behind you. You can’t see nothing but water. And we’d swim till we got down to the Shark River Inlet where the bridge is on the ocean front. And we’d swim in towards the bridge. Sometimes we’d get out and go up on the top, and we’d dive off the bridge into that channel
Kay Harris:
Okay. So you’ve never experienced any situations where… and you said you didn’t really go swimming much. Right? That’s not your thing? [crosstalk 01:12:44]
Roy Riller:
I had two situations on the Asbury part of the beach.
Kay Harris:
Okay.
Roy Riller:
I was riding my bike one day, cause we used to ride our bikes all over the place back then. And every day I always had my trunks on. When I left home, t-shirt on, a little shirt, and your pants. And you had your sneakers on with no socks, and you ride. I’m riding down the boardwalk, the certain time of day, you’re not allowed to ride the bikes on the boardwalk. But if I got down there early, I’d go up on the boardwalk and ride anyway. If the cops come at me, I just go off, and he can’t catch me, and go about my business. So I’m riding and I think it was between First and Second Avenue. They had this pool, they had a pool on the boardwalk.
Kay Harris:
Oh yes.
Roy Riller:
Called the Natatorium. I’m riding, being nosy, just being a kid. These kids were standing out front, these black kids. And they had their little bathing suits, rolled up in the towel. They’re standing around, and they wasn’t looking happy. So I pulled over. I said, “What’s the problem?” One came, and he said, “They won’t let us in!” I said, “What do you mean they won’t let you in?! This pool is a public pool.” “ Well they told us we can’t come in. And they said, they got a club swimming.” That was their cover. They told the kids, “They got a private club swimming. So you can’t come in now.” So I said, “Okay, wait here, let me check it out.” I left, I said, “Watch my bike.” I went in and they had, you could go up the steps and go upstairs because they had a balcony up there, around up top.
I went up there, and I look, and there was three ladies in the pool. Middle aged women, white women. They dog paddling in the water, talking, because they were probably standing up. Because I really didn’t know how deep the pool was. I really didn’t care, because I didn’t swim in that because I’m not a pool type of person. See, when I take my clothes off, I hit that ocean, because there’s plenty of water out there for you, believe me. Because I was swimming once, I went to Belmar and I swam out, and they had the fishing piers then. I swam out to the end of the fishing pier, which was quite a ways out. Because you couldn’t see nothing behind you, but water. I swam out, and I just decided to tread water.
This older guy came in. I don’t know where he come from, but when I saw him, he was swimming. When he got up near me, he stops, he starts treading water. And he said, “Where you come from?” I said, “I just came out.” He said, “Well, how far are you going?” I said, “Well, this is as far as I’m going.” And we talked and he said, “I’m going to tell you something.” And he said, “You could swim as far as you can walk.” But I had never thought about that. He said, “You can swim as far as you can walk. As long as you don’t have no fear of it.”
Kay Harris:
You’re talking about in the ocean, up in-
Roy Riller:
In the ocean.
Kay Harris:
And what about in- the Natatorium [crosstalk 01:16:04]
Roy Riller:
In the Natatorium I told you, I took my pants off, and my t-shirt, and I got up on that flat part where you lean on, and I jumped over in the pool. I started hollering like Tarzan. And them women looked all around. When they saw me coming down, I just hit the water in a cannonball, boom! Splash water over. And you should have seen them struggling, trying to get out of the pool. But once I came up, I just saw them kicking and swimming from one end to the other. By that time they had gotten out, and one of them went outside to where the lady was in the booth. She came in, hollering at me, telling me to get out of the water. And I told her, “Come in and get me.” I was on my back, swimming, and spiting water up and playing. Just being a kid.
She ran out. So she called the cops. The first cop came, I knew him. He came in, and he started waving for me. I swim over the way he was, he was squatting down. He said, “what are you doing?” I said, “Well, I’m swimming.” He said, “Well, how’d you get in here?” “What do you mean how I got in here, I just walked through the door and came in.” He said, “Well, the lady outside said that she got private people swimming. You not supposed to be in here.” I said, “Well, I didn’t see nothing but three women. And then they got out and ran when I jumped in.” He said, “Well, come on outside. Let me talk to you.” So I got out and went outside. We was in the lobby. We talked and he said, “Look, why don’t you just put your clothes on, and go on and let me take care of this.” I said “alright, whatever.” But in the meantime, there was kids were outside, and Howard Roland came in. And I didn’t even know Howard at that time. But he came in and he said, “What’s going on?” The cop was talking to him. Then Howard came over to me. He said, “What seemed to be the trouble?” I said, “Well, they’re telling these kids outside they can’t come in here and swim. I want to know why.”
Kay Harris:
And how old were you at the time? About a teenager?
Roy Riller:
Maybe 14. So anyway, Howard says, “All right.” He said, “Let me talk to him.” Finally, he went over and talked to him. I don’t know what he said, and don’t care. Because he told me, he said “Go outside, and tell the kids to come on in.” I went out and told him, “Come on in!” They came in, and they went in, got their trunks on. Everybody’s jumping in the water, wherever they could swim. Because a lot of them couldn’t even swim, but they liked to play in the water.
Kay Harris:
Wow.
Roy Riller:
I was swimming up and down, and Howard came in. Once he got in the water, and he started swimming. And me and him got into deep water, and we would talk. And he said, “You swim pretty good, don’t you?” I said, “Yeah, I like swimming.” He says, “You ever thought about being a life guard?” “I said, no.” He said, “Well, I teach water safety in Monmouth County. Why don’t you come down and swim with me sometime?” And that’s how I got to know him.
Kay Harris:
And who was Harold Roland anyway?
Roy Riller:
Howard Rogan was, he was a Monmouth County, water safety chief. That’s the title I’m giving him. Plus he worked at the Asbury Park fire department.
Kay Harris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Roy Riller:
He was at an EMT. He drove families and all that, did all the life saving stuff that needed for a patient of all that. He did all that stuff.
Roy Riller:
He was a great man. Cause he trained all the life guards up and down the sea shore. Between Loch Arbor and down to Spring Lake. So he was still trying to get me. So I take it. I started taking the lifesaving course with him. And I went through the phases of being a senior lifesaver, and I got all my certifications and everything through Howard Roland, cause I used to go to the beach. And when he tells me, “You meet me down at the beach tomorrow at one o’clock, or two o’clock, whatever.” And I would meet him wherever he said, and he’d always have guys that was training to come down. And between him and those guys, I became one of the better swimmers that he had. He used to take us out in the ocean, and we’d have to try to save him.
Kay Harris:
Wow.
Roy Riller:
And that was like trying to wrap your arms around a whale, and pulling him up, and bringing him in to where he can walk in the water. Because he was a rough man in that water. And he was a rolly polly guy, kind of a guy. And you wouldn’t even think that he could swim like that.
Kay Harris:
Wow.
Roy Riller:
And it finally clicked in my head. He can’t even drown. [laughter] It finally clicked in my head. He can’t even drown. Because a couple of times I thought he was going to drown me. Because once you grabbed him, you were supposed to bring him up. And once he grabbed you, he turned over and take you deep and he’d be fighting and trying to get away. But it was in training because you got to have a proper technique of grabbing a person and holding them and keeping them from doing harm to you as you swim. Because once you get them up, you got to be able to start bringing them in in rough water. You know, sometimes water was rough. He’d be turning over like a whale. And you know, sometimes you got to let him go.
Kay Harris:
Roy, that was such a great story because it shows that you were such a young person, only 14 years old, but to take a stance the way you did and the kind of impact, and the fact that you even brought out the best, I guess Howard Roland [phonetic 01:22:07] himself must have been a genuine person. And the fact that he embraced you and took you under his wings. And…saw the good-
Roy Riller:
The other experience we had working for The Sun, they gave us passes to go to the Monte Carlo because Buster Crabbe was coming to town. And at that time, Buster Crabbe was Tarzan. He was the Tarzan then. So we was all excited to go. We were going to meet Tarzan. We had seen him in the movies, but we wanted to meet Tarzan in person and the experience we got from watching Tarzan. He wasn’t such a great swimmer like Johnny Weismuller. He was short winded. He could swim, but he just didn’t have that wind to swim, and the kick that Johnny Weissmuller had. So we went to The Monte Carlo, they had a bus that took us down. And once we got there, it was a lot of white kids in the pool but Buster Crabbe wasn’t there yet. So when we got over to the entrance, the man told us we couldn’t go in.
Kay Harris:
What a surprise.
Roy Riller:
So we… I stepped up and asked him a question. I said, “Why?” I said, “They gave us passes so we could come down and swim with Buster Crabbe.” I said, “So we could swim with Tarzan.” He said, “Well, I don’t know what kind of pass they gave you, but you can’t come in, this is private.” So we were standing around because now we are not happy because we wanted to swim with… I figured I could out swim, Buster Crabbe. So anyway, finally Buster Crabbe’s entourage, they showed up, because they had a private entrance that they came in. And then next thing I finally know, he was in the water and he was splashing and kicking and…He got the one in, and he got out. So he walked over to where… We was outside the fence. And he walked over and I guess he asked the guy that was in charge there, because they had lifeguards sitting around. I could out swim, any of them. So he asked the guy, why were we standing around? And the guy told him we wasn’t allowed in. The story I got is, he told them “if they can’t come in, I’m leaving. I’m not going…” And so they finally opened the gate and told us to come on in. We went in and I already had my trunks on. I just had to get out of my pants and sneakers and took my shirt off and I wanted to hit it and, start kicking. So finally all the kids got in the water and then he started swimming again. So I started kicking and swimming with him. And then when he see like, he was tired, I was still kicking and swimming. [laughter] He finally came over and started talking to me. He said, “you liked to swim don’t you?” I said, “Yeah, is part of my life. I swim in the ocean seven days a week.” So we talked and we had a good day. They gave us refreshments and they tried to treat us like they really wanted us to be there. But the atmosphere was, we were just there because of Buster Crabbe because he said something. And after that, I never saw a black person swimming in that Monte Carlo…but I didn’t even want to swim in it. Cause I’m not a swimming… I’m not a pool person. I hate chlorine, I hate it.
Kay Harris:
You liked the wide open ocean.
Roy Riller:
The Monte Carlo was salt water that had… They pumped saltwater in there. And it was nice. And they had… But in the natatorium they had chlorine. As soon as I’d leave the natatorium, I’d go hit the ocean and wash the chlorine off.
Kay Harris:
You got some great stories! Arden, anything else you want to… Can you think of that you want to mention from that…
Arden Thorne:
No. Do you have a map of Springwood Avenue?
Kay Harris:
Yes. I have the same one that you have on your wall, but I have a feeling that map needs to be… Well, then again, it depends on what decade, because over the years, sometimes there’s some stores… I don’t think that every store or business that you guys mentioned today are included. So maybe there’s an opportunity….
Roy Riller:
Well, I tell you what, I don’t know who she had to do it, develop that map, Rainette Holimon [phonetic 01:26:55]
Kay Harris:
Brandon Holloman. And the gentleman who did, his signatures on the bottom of that.
Roy Riller:
Okay as long as you got with-
Kay Harris:
Oh yeah, absolutely. There’s a large version of it at the senior center.
Roy Riller:
Okay.
Kay Harris:
But let me see any other… Can you think of any other questions that we need to include [inaudible 01:27:19]?
Gillian Demetriou:
Let me look through my notes. I think, we got a lot.
Kay Harris:
I know we could probably talk for hours.
Gillian Demetriou:
These guys are full of stories.
Kay Harris:
Yeah. And did you catch… were able to catch your Arden’s full name for your recording.
Gillian Demetriou:
I got it when he started. Okay, good. I’ll go through the recording to see who comes in and out.
Kay Harris:
Well, in fact there might even be some follow up, even if it’s not all recorded, based on the kind of information you provided, we may want to come back just to ask some additional questions because we want to kind of frame the information and capture it for prosperity, because, it sounds… Because I’m just looking at the clock right now. But for example, maybe later on, we could even do some more conversation about the Cookman Avenue… Because we mentioned some stores…but I think the young people would be blown away when they hear not only the number, but the variety of types of businesses that we actually had. And I have friends who would say like, you would go to the corner store… Dewitt, to Mr. Raven…And then my girlfriend would say… And you can… Your mother might send you down there to pick up something and you didn’t necessarily have to pay for it that day. You just said, “Oh, my mom needs XYZ.” And he would just write it down on a sheet of paper and you would come back and pay it later. So it’s that neighborhood environment.
You remember the Walkers? Danny Walker, Hazel Walker, they went to St. Peter Claver. And of course Kita … Roberts, you remember [inaudible 01:28:57] R & R Rib House, although that was the later years too. [inaudible 00:08:03] R & R Rib House. And, remember across from St Peter Claver, the-
Roy Riller:
The hall?
Kay Harris:
The hall, what did they call that thing?
Roy Riller:
St. Peter Claver hall.
Kay Harris:
Oh yeah [laughter].
Roy Riller:
That’s where we had the hall upstairs here and in that hall is where we used to have classes. Because we used to have to go to the catechism, all the good stuff for the church and then on the left side of that hall is where the nuns stayed, the nuns quarters and everything. And on the side where the church was, was where the priests stayed. But it was a lot of good things because that hall used to have basketball. We had a basketball court upstairs. We gave dances there, they had wedding receptions there and there was days, birthday parties for kids that was old enough to be out. It was a great thing for the neighborhood. Because growing up, you need guidance and you need supervision. And back in those days, like I said, the neighborhood was family. Because it takes… Like they sat, it takes a village to raise a child. Well, it was a village then on Asbury side and the Neptune side.
Kay Harris:
Do you remember the Carver Hotel at all?
Roy Riller:
Oh sure, that was my hang out.
Kay Harris:
That was? That was another important one. That was on…is that Myrtle…
Arden Thorne:
Myrtle Avenue. 312 Myrtle Avenue.
Roy Riller:
They got a senior citizen complex in there now. But I lived on the next corner from that hotel, 348 Myrtle Avenue. And we used to come down there in the evenings and we would go inside the yard and just lay around on the grass and watch those people that was coming around for the weekends and all the celebrities – because a lot of celebrities came there.
Kay Harris:
Do you remember any celebrities that used to come? Any names?
Arden Thorne:
To the Carver? I can’t think of it right this minute.
Roy Riller:
We had… Let’s go into the sports world. We had Don Newcomb, people like that, ballplayers, they used to come there. Then you had the musicians, a lot of musicians. Guys like Count Basie, a lot of those band guys would come there and sometimes they’d perform them on the weekends.
Kay Harris:
You remember Fats Waller?
Roy Riller:
Count Basie was from Red Bank.
Kay Harris:
Fats Waller. His mother owned the house… The one right down the street on Atkins Avenue where it’s the Bethel… Right across from the Second Baptist Church. The food pantry, that house… She’s the… Because I know one point it was a beauty parlor right after [inaudible 01:32:13] But before it was the beauty parlor. Anyway, Fats Waller’s mother used to live upstairs. And that’s the house where he and Andy Razaf wrote Honeysuckle Rose.
Note from Kay: Honey Suckle Rose was recorded in 1928. The building later owned by Mrs. Willie Mae Ford who moved her business to this location after her beauty parlor was damaged during the 1970 Springwood Ave uprising. The building was gifted to the Bethel AME Church by Mrs. Ford currently serves as a Food and Clothing Pantry.
Arden Thorne:
Yes. I know lot of them people, like I said before, they used to all come to a Park. Asbury Park was the place to be. I’ve seen Duke Ellington, and I think Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald. Some of them, I don’t even remember the names now.
Roy Riller:
Like BB King.
Arden Thorne:
They all either went one, two or three places in Asbury to perform. I’m trying think of the fella now and he used to… Don’t get old. [laughter]
Roy Riller:
They used to have Big Maybelle. They had…
Kay Harris:
Oh, Maybelle?
Roy Riller:
Big Maybelle they called her and Little Esther, and they had Johnny Otis, all these people used to come Asbury, because they used to be perform down in the convention, I mean, in the Armory. Because they used to perform and have these concerts and things at the Armory.
Kay Harris:
Where was the Armory?
Roy Riller:
It’s right there on –
Kay Harris:
Lake Ave?
Roy Riller:
. . .like you cross Main Street they used to have a lot of big dances in there.
Kay Harris:
Oh, that Armory, yes, yes, On the corner of Bond and Lake Avenue.
Roy Riller:
There’s a lot of dances and then all these musicians and they would perform there.
Kay Harris:
That’s a good point. That was [crosstalk 01:33:47].
Roy Riller:
…and a lot of them performed at the Hotel Carver while they were in town. They’d be putting on free concerts for the people that was coming there for the weekends. There’s a lot of celebrities came there on the weekends because we used to go there and watch them. And they’d be playing croquette outside in the lawn and stuff. You know, stuff, sophisticated stuff that we didn’t even know too much about, but they were doing it and they be talking and sitting around, out there in the lawn chairs, drinking their scotch whiskey or whatever, just having a good time.
Kay Harris:
This is in front of The Carver?
Roy Riller:
That was in The Carver in the lot. [crosstalk 01:34:27] Because they’d set up tables and chairs and umbrellas and they’d… It was a big thing. And I met a lot of those people as a kid, because they’d be walking and you’d be out around and we could talk to them, because I met a Big Maybelle and I met, what’s her name? She-
Roy Riller:
Little Esther.
Roy Riller:
They called her a Little Esther. But I was just sitting on my aunt’s front stoop. And she was walking by with this poodle and I’m looking and said, “Man, that’s a fancy looking dog that lady got.” And she walked up and started talking to me and then she asked me, “Are you coming to the dance tomorrow night?” Dance? I’m just a kid. And I said, “What dance?” She says, “I’m performing at the Armory. And my name is Little Esther.” I just almost fell out. And we snuck down and we were… Climbed up on the back where we could look through the window at them performing. But we weren’t even allowed out after dark, but we’d sneak out every once in a while and get away with it when we knew our parents was out and it wasn’t no backup. My sister was supposed to be watching us because she was the oldest, but it was all in fun. Like I say, I met a lot of those people as a youngster when they were in town performing. Ball players, some of them boxers came into town, people. That was…
Kay Harris:
Okay, so I think, what do you think, that’s a wrap?
Gillian Demetriou:
Mr. Thorne, can I just ask you like a couple questions? When were you born? When were you born, sir?
Arden Thorne:
August the 5th, 1924.
Gillian Demetriou:
And when did you come to Asbury Park? Have you been here your whole life?
Arden Thorne:
I was about six, seven years old when I came to Asbury.
Gillian Demetriou:
And you served in World War II, I see.
Arden Thorne:
Yeah, I was in World War II.
Gillian Demetriou:
How long are… Can you just talk a little bit about it if you remember? If you want to. You don’t have to.
Arden Thorne:
I spent four years in there.
Gillian Demetriou:
What branch of the —
Arden Thorne:
Aviation engineers.
Gillian Demetriou:
And were you… You said you were there for four years. Were you in Europe?
Arden Thorne:
I was in the Pacific Theater.
Gillian Demetriou:
In the Pacific Theater?
Arden Thorne:
The jungles of new Guinea, Africa, I mean Japan.
Gillian Demetriou:
And you were there until the war ended?
Arden Thorne:
In what?
Gillian Demetriou:
You were there until the war ended or did you leave before?
Arden Thorne:
Oh, when… After I came back from overseas, I just got out of service. They wanted me to stay in….mean like you do all I enough of that.
Gillian Demetriou:
Good. And married? Do you have any kids?
Arden Thorne:
I was married. I lost my wife 13 years, now.
Gillian Demetriou:
How did you two meet?
Arden Thorne:
Huh?
Gillian Demetriou:
How did you two meet?
Kay Harris:
How did you meet?
Arden Thorne:
My wife? We knew each other from grammar school. I forgot exactly how many years we were married now. [laughter]
Kay Harris:
And you went to Bangs Avenue School, right?
Arden Thorne:
I went to [inaudible 01:38:30] Bangs Avenue School as a little boy. Didn’t stay that long. And then we went to Neptune and I went to Ridge Avenue school over there. Then I went… I was there when I went to service, I was over in the high and then I enlisted. Not only me, there was about 20 of us that enlisted that day. And of course we went down to Fort Monmouth and then from there they formed the outfit and we went overseas. Right now I’m one of the fortunate ones that I’m still here. But mostly all my friends are now gone. I got one fellow from Asbury, G… You know, Al Lyons…Did you remember Al Lyons? Tall fella, when they used to have the Elks, and he’d be in the front of the parade? Well, his brother Gene Lyons, he lives in California. And I just called him to tell him about a friend of… the Thomas’ girl. Her husband had passed away. You know Mack Owens? Practically all the people I know, East Orange, all the gang, they’re all gone.
Kay Harris:
You’re still here.
Gillian Demetriou:
Do you have any kids?
Arden Thorne:
What?
Gillian Demetriou:
Do you have any kids?
Arden Thorne:
I had one son. He died at 25. I got a… I call him my son but he’s not really my son, he’s my nephew. He lives in Florida. But only… My wife only had the one child.
Gillian Demetriou:
What about your nephew? What does he do?
Arden Thorne:
He drives a tractor trailer. You can put down, I almost kicked him out of the house one time too. I’m only kidding. [laughter]
Kay Harris:
So where did… Where were you born? You said before you were four years old.
Arden Thorne:
64 136th Street in New York.
Kay Harris:
So New York. And then you came here at four.
Arden Thorne:
Yeah.
Kay Harris:
And you’ve been a member of this church-
Arden Thorne:
I’ve been a member of this church since I was about seven years old. On Sylvan Avenue the rectory was on the right hand facing the house, it would be on the left hand side, sitting in the back. And then of course, when they decide to get rid of that and they came over here, I’ve been here. The funniest thing about this church, I’ve always helped out… This is the most, I’ve never been in the church itself.
Kay Harris:
Of course, yes.
Arden Thorne:
And only because of what [crosstalk 01:41:05] going on right now. [Kay interjects: COVID.]
But every priest we’ve had here, wanted me to be the senior warden in the church and I refuse to have it. I’ll help them do anything got to be done, but I don’t want the head of that responsibility. They laugh when I tell them that. But I really mean it. When you take the head of position of anything, remember the weight’s on you. And of course, even now, today, and we got still good members in the church, but there’s nothing like the old timers where I think of [inaudible 01:41:42] Enoch Bryant, Joe Reed [phonetic 01:41:44], Cecil Henry.
Kay Harris:
Reeds, the Reed family.
Arden Thorne:
I think of all them… We used to have a mens… In fact, like I said before, my wife belonged to Second Baptist and I contribute and help out over there as much as I do here. But like I said before, I could never get the two men’s clubs from the two churches to get together to act like they one. Now tonight at four o’clock they’re having that fish fry over there, at Second Baptist. And I said to the priests…
Gillian Demetriou:
Pastor Vanzant. I spoke with him this morning!
Arden Thorne:
As I said, not only that… I says, “My church members don’t know nothing about it.” A simple thing for them to have something posted over here… We have… And the same thing, vice versa, where we have somebody posted over there. Nobody does it I sort of give them up. I tell you I’m in. They all mean well, but now, today is worse than it used to be. Because before I could depend on you guys to do things, a certain thing.
Roy Riller:
That is my grandson. He’s the Prom King and that’s his prom queen. They both graduated Summa Cum Laude.
Gillian Demetriou:
This year? This past year?
Roy Riller:
Yes.
Gillian Demetriou:
Congratulations.
Roy Riller:
Thank you.
Arden Thorne:
A lot of differences these days than there used to be. Even where I live, I built my house after World War II. My neighbors were just like family. They had keys to my house. I had keys to their house. They looked out for us. We looked out for them. Now I got neighbors that been there two years. From the littlest one to the biggest one, they don’t even say good morning, hello, nothing.
Gillian Demetriou:
That’s rude.
Roy Riller:
And I mean, it’s not only now. It’s all over that way. People aren’t… They don’t have the spirit that God wants you to really have. That you look and love each other. Everybody’s for themself. That’s what it amounts to.
Gillian Demetriou:
People are so disconnected nowadays and it’s kind of sad.
Roy Riller:
And then they talk so much about this racial thing that’s going on, which is crazy to me. I was raised on… When we came to Asbury, I lived on Atkins Avenue over here. And then we moved over into Neptune. Now, when we moved into Neptune, you know what, the biggest amount of racial people that lived in there were Italians. I was raised up with the Vitranz [phonetic 01:44:31] Siciliani’s [phonetic 01:44:32], the Nuzis[phonetic 01:44:32]. I ate as much at goomba food as they did. [laughter] That’s right! We never thought of it. I mean, don’t get me wrong, discrimination was there, but it never affected, at least me and my mother and father. And my mother was from Antigua, and my father was from Barbados. Going back where they lived in New York, the biggest denomination of people were from the West Indies, somewhere in the islands. But to me it don’t make no difference where you’re from or who you are. You just another human being. But are getting crazy.
Gillian Demetriou:
Where in the city did they live?
Arden Thorne:
Huh?
Gillian Demetriou:
Where in the city did they live? Where you were born?
Arden Thorne:
I was born in 64 West 136th street.
Kay Harris:
I need to go because I have my business on the Boardwalk. So you’ll lock up and everything? Call Betty and she’ll set the alarm. Betty, she’ll set the alarm. You know the deal, this is your Church.
Arden Thorne:
I don’t know what’s going on now.
Roy Riller:
Here’s my granddaughter, she just graduated from Rutgers.
Gillian Demetriou:
What did she study? Did you mention that before? [crosstalk]
Roy Riller:
Who am I staying here for now?
Kay Harris:
Because y’all are still talking and I got to run.
End of Interview [01:46:15]